SPEAKER_01 0:00

Yeah, fundamentally cash is more anonymous than crypto. Holding crypto is pseudonymous. You can always find out who is behind that. Whereas you know, cash is completely a barrier instrument, and that that will always be the you know the money launderer's friend over crypto. I think it's it's the perception that it's only used for illicit purposes and it doesn't have a real use case.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

People do think of crypto worse than cash, really, don't they? When you look at those those paths, they wouldn't really think of the cash being more dirty, they would look at the crypto.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

The other one, which doesn't relate to stable coins but more to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, is that it's a Ponzi scheme.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

John Stathopolis is a global head of compliance at Velocity, a next generation financial infrastructure platform re-engineering how capital moves across banks, blockchains, and borders. Velocity delivers programmable, compliant payment and treasury infrastructures that unifies fiat and digital asset rails, enabling enterprises to manage liquidity, optimize treasury operations, and execute real-time cross-border settlement with clarity and control. With a compliance career spanning both traditional regulatory financial services and decentralized finance, John sits at the nexus of governance, growth, and institutional trust. He leads the development of robust compliance frameworks that safeguard regulatory integrity while also enabling high velocity capital flows, which ensures innovation and control advancement together. In today's conversation, John explores how high growth financial infrastructure businesses balance speed with control and what modern compliant leadership really looks like inside a company that is scaling at a phenomenal pace. Welcome to uh Voicing Compliance episode five. Uh today we are lucky enough to have the head of compliance uh from Velocity, John Staathikopoulos. Welcome John, how are you doing? Good, mate. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. How's your problem?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

How's your journey in? Yeah, all good. Um, just an easy cycle over from my flat, so 10, 15 minutes, quite nice. Nice morning for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, good man. Well, thanks for coming in. So, John, obviously know you well, done a bit of work with Velocity over the past 10, 15 months. So uh yeah, excited to have you on and talk about your journey and the businesses. For the listeners who are tuning in, would you mind just giving an overview of yourself and what velocity you're currently doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, absolutely. So my name's John Sathacopoulos, as you said. Um, exactly. Um the global head of compliance for Velocity. So um Velocity is a relatively new startup um operating in the stablecoin payments uh space. We are headquartered in the UK. So I joined the company in June last year, so it's about eight, nine months. Um effectively charged with building out the entire compliance framework, um, building out the compliance department. We've got a pretty aggressive licensing strategy, which we can talk about a little bit today. Um so leading on all of those sorts of efforts. Good. You enjoying it so far? Yeah, having a lot of fun. Um, you know, I think when you and I first started speaking, uh kind of outlining what my ideal job was, this really did hit the sweet spot. Um, looking at that kind of brand new company where I can get involved, help build out the business in a relatively exciting space. Obviously, there's a bit of a risk, you don't know who you're gonna be working with, but everyone in the company's turned out to be you know one incredibly capable, and you know, two, um, you know, really, really nice people. So um it's it's been a been a really good eight, nine months so far. Awesome and I looks good. Is it uh fast pace? I'm guessing it's pretty fast day to day. It's it's it's crazy. I mean, I've I've been in the crypto space for about seven years now, so I uh I'm used to the fast pace, but this is kind of on another level. Um and but all for the right reasons. You know, it's fast pace, trying to get our licenses, trying to do things properly. We recognize the value that compliance has from a commercial perspective, so it means I can partner really well with the the commercial team and the revenue side of things, but we want to build ourselves up and and start operating really quickly. So yeah, pace is uh part of part of the game.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Awesome. And where are they operating at the moment, velocity? Which sort of locations are you currently based in?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

So we're headquartered out of the UK, so we'll be going for our FCA permissions. Um, we're looking for our Mika license in in Europe. We're looking at uh setting up in Australia, the UAE, the US, um, and then I think once all of those uh targets have settled down, we'll we'll start looking at uh certain other jurisdictions, most likely in Asia, South America.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Cool. Sounds good. Thanks for that. So obviously today we're gonna be talking about stable coins, Mika, and compliance within crypto. For people that maybe have heard the word stablecoin, know a little bit, or maybe don't really know. Could you give a just uh a brief overview into what stable coins are?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, absolutely. So stable coins are a cryptocurrency that are pegged to an underlying fiat currency. So the most common stable coins out there are US dollar denominated. So you've got, let's say, tether and circle probably make up the largest market cap. Um, you know, both of those are linked essentially pegged one-to-one to the dollar. Um, it's it's pegged by buying underlying assets that are um relatively liquid. So yeah, peg pegged to the the dollar by buying an underlying asset like a money market fund, uh like a US Treasury, um, essentially secure assets, um, and then minting and redeeming on a one-to-one basis. Um so the idea is that it always holds a one-to-one peg with with the underlying uh currency.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

And what would you say the main point of stablecoin is in terms of what they're solving?

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah, I mean that's that's interesting because so when I first got into the space, I was talking to a colleague about this the other day, um, I think 2019 was the first time I heard about stable coins. And the use case back then is quite different to the use case today. And I think a lot of that has to do with the institutional adoption of digital assets or cryptocurrencies as as a whole. So in 2019, you know, they were used because people couldn't get banking rails into crypto. So once you had bought your Bitcoin, your Ethereum, your Solana, the the big cryptos at the time, um, you'd want to trade out of that into a fiat currency because you didn't really have a mechanism to do so, or you might not be able to get back in. But you didn't always want to hold your value in in the Bitcoin itself. So they came up with the stable coins to keep people on chain uh with a fiat currency, uh with a fiat denominated currency, but without ever having to move that off-chain. Now, the last year and a half, two years, stable coins have become a much bigger buzzword than what they've been in the past. And I think what people have realized, and this follows on from the institutional adoption we've seen in the industry, is stable coins are money and they can be used like money, and they have similar um uh attributes to to regular money, but at the same time, they have um attributes linked to the blockchain that bring in efficiency, uh low cost, etc., that that people are looking to take advantage of now.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Awesome. Even dumbed it down for me. Do you think because it seems to be booming now, everyone's talking about it? Why do you think it's evolving so fast and so much, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Yeah, so I mean, over the last few years, I've I I've spent my career working on the institutional side of things. So crypto is retail focused for a very long time. But the last few years, particularly when you get companies like BlackRock that are um built building up ETFs, um, money market funds that are tied to crypto, pension funds are starting to invest in it. Um, you've seen a lot bigger institutional adoption, and that's led to a maturity in the industry. A lot a lot of the big players, the pay, the big banks, the big institutions that that we all know about are starting to utilize this, and it's it's finding its own use case. Last year you had Stripe, you know, one of the biggest checkout payment companies in the world, acquiring a on-and-off-ramp uh stablecoin provider called Bridge. That really kind of triggered everything going on in the market and really validated the the use case for stable coins and has led to you know the visas, the master cards, the big players that you know, the the incumbents that that have been in the space for a long time to really get interested and and start to explore it.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Yeah, it seems like it's going crazy everywhere, everyone's talking about it, it's on LinkedIn, yeah, companies are adopting it. It seems uh it's a big buzzword at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, I mean, look, got Goldman Sachs last year called a stablecoin summer in in their report. Now a colleague of mine, our head of head of product, actually started calling it stable coin summer first. So potentially JS stole that away from him. But uh yeah, you know, when they they went to Jackson Hall last year and um yeah, the big institutions were discussing, and I think the report that came out of that, like you know, stable coins really was the buzzword. And now you have the regulation act that really follows. So in the US, you've got the the the Genius Act, the Clarity Act, and the U in the EU, you've got Mika, the UK, uh the FSMA regime starting to apply to crypto. So you know, all of that lends legitimacy to the industry, and um yeah, following following on from that, you get bigger institutional adoption.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

And why do you think the regulators are taking such an interest in it at the moment? They seem to be taking more of an interest than ever.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah, I mean, I think they've taken, I think they've been interested in it a long time. Um, so crypto has been regulated to an extent. So most jurisdictions have had a money laundering regime. So in in the UK, you had to be on the the FCA's money laundering register in order to operate and provide crypto asset services. You were subject to the same AML legislation that you would have been if you were uh any other financial institution, but you weren't subject to the same regulations, the the prudential regulations, the conflicts of interest, the the other regulatory aspects, safeguarding, etc. But that's all now evolving. Because I think what regulators now understand is you know what is the asset and how can they best regulate it. But you're now starting to see a diversion of how different jurisdictions and and bodies are are looking to regulate the space. That makes sense. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

How would you say sort of stablecoin is different to maybe like e-money or maybe other crypto? What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah, so I think yeah, stablecoin, as I said, is is a cryptocurrency that's paid to an underlying fiat currency. E-money is more of a digital representation of fiat, and so you have a claim against the issuer of the e-money. So um that could be a Revolute, that could be uh JP Morgan, a bank or whatever it might be. Um, and then you get other cryptocurrencies which you know range from Bitcoin to to meme coins, which live on the blockchain, but they don't have that same sort of stable link to an underlying uh underlying rate. Okay, awesome. Do you know there's any threats to stablecoin, any sort of challenges that you really see? It's interesting at the moment because the industry seems to be challenged um right now, where people have been selling out of Bitcoin. Uh, I think you've seen a big crash in the price over the last three odd months. Um, but that's kind of indicative of it maybe being a speculative asset. So with some of the geopolitics that are going on, people sell out of the riskier asset and buy into the safe havens, the US dollar, the gold, etc. Whereas while you've seen the price of Bitcoin going down and the market cap being reduced, you've actually seen the market cap of stable coins increasing. So it's impossible to say in 10 years' time what's going to exist and what's not going to exist. But I think at the moment it really does look like stable coins are stable. Um the use case is being validated. Um, and you know, instead of trading out of your your cryptocurrencies and swapping that for your underlying fiat, people are probably trading into stable coins more regularly than than they used to be before.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Awesome. Okay, cool. And what about Mika? Uh, a keyword, another buzzword, people are talking about it all the time. If you were to kind of explain what Mika is, what it's all about to a founder, what would you sort of say?

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Yeah, so I guess it depends on what that founder's background is. Um let's say not crypto. Yeah, so if you've worked in in traditional finance, um particularly in an invest in an investment firm, if you've done trading, you've worked in derivatives, etc., you'll um you'll you'll be familiar with MIFID, MIFID 2 in in the EU. Mika is MIFID for crypto. Okay. And so it's taken that money laundering regime, so the VASP regime that they had in the EU, and it's upgraded it to a full authorization regime, and that's consistent across the block of of the EU member states. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

And how hard do you think getting these licenses are currently at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

It actually depends on the member states. Um the location, I guess. Yeah, and the location. So, you know, Poland is a member state that has not yet implemented Mika into local law. It's a regulation from the EU, so it is required to be implemented locally. Um, and so in in Poland, it's actually impossible to get your MICA authorization because the KNF, a local regulator, hasn't opened their authorization gateway. There's certain other member states that are being accused of fast tracking some some of the processes by some of the other member states or by ESMA. And then you've got, let's say, your kind of gold gold standard states where it's going to take you nine months to a year to get your authorization. But with anything, you know, it largely, almost wholly depends on how complete your application is. If you can submit a complete application to the regulator that covers everything that they're asking for, all the policies, the procedures, and then you have the the infrastructure behind that to support it, and you can prove that. Generally, your application process is going to be a lot more straightforward. When you you know have gaps in in your program, when you don't have competent people, when you don't fully understand what the regulations mean and what you're supposed to do, that is going to lead to a significant amount of back and forth with a regulator, and that's going to lead to either a rejection or a very long application window. So you know a lot of the timeline will depend on the institution. I'd agree.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

I think from what what I'm experienced, a lot to do is is to do with the team, the people that you've got in place, and how strict they are with the application. I think if people are trying to cut corners or don't really understand it, you can see where rejections are coming and block in basically. Do you think more and more companies are going to try to get these licenses now within this space?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, look, I mean, so Mika rolled out a grandfathering period, which each member state was allowed to implement. So when Mika came in at the end of 2024, um they implemented a grandfathering period. So timeline for firms to get authorized. Member states were then able to choose how long to allow that grandfathering period to run for in their local countries. The longest they can run for is till uh the 30th of June this year. And so by the end of the third, by the end of June this year, if you haven't got your Mika authorization, um you cannot provide services. So you should be seeing the majority of firms that were already operating, already obtaining their Mika licenses, and then anyone else is gonna have to start from scratch. So you've probably seen the bulk of of Mika authorized firms already um being authorized, and then the rest of them are are likely gonna fall away. Okay, that's good to know.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

And what would you say the regulators are really looking for? Like what does good look like from their point of view, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 14:19

It does depend on the regulator, but um I I think it's it is a very much a holistic viewpoint. So they want to know does the entity have local mind and management? So if you're an international company, are you just let's say a letterbox entity with two people on the ground, or do you have a managing director and a local MLRO and the right level of control infrastructure and personnel on the ground? They want to see that the governance structures are in place, they want to see that your money laundering program is is in place, um, and then every every other aspect of Mika that applies to the permissions you're asking for are being met. So, as an example, if you're uh executing orders on behalf of clients, you need to have a best execution program in place. Um, and so it's everything related to the specific permissions you're asking for. All of that needs to be to be done to a high spec.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Okay, that's good to know. And do you think do you think um the regulations slow down innovation? Do you think they mature the space? What would you say on that point?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

It's an inherent conflict, right? It it will always slow down innovation, but at the same time, it's absolutely exactly it's absolutely necessary. And the space has been unregulated for a long time. We've seen a lot of innovation. I'd say not most of not a lot of it has been great innovation, but it has led to the concept of the blockchain. It has led to these underlying assets that people that there is real utility for. So the innovation has happened, um, but now the regulation's bringing the safeguards around it. Regulation will always be behind innovation, and it always will have to catch up. It's it's the nature of of the game. And so what you're seeing now are the regulators trying to catch up and trying to do so intelligently. So rather than just whacking out uh regulation without actually understanding what they're regulating, regulators are taking their time, understanding what the actual core use of the assets are, whether there's similarities to what's existed before, if this is brand new, and then figuring it out, figuring out how to intelligently regulate that.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Seems like they're more strict on it now, taking everyone's taking a bit more seriously, people are more aware of it. Do you think that's gonna help the space really?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Honestly, it depends which side of the space you're on. I mean, if you're you know a crypto maximalist from 2009 and the you know cypherpunk, like this is your worst nightmare. This is not what you've signed up for. Um, and it's not what you believe the point of cryptocurrencies and and Bitcoin is. So the newer people will like it, and maybe the older people that are in the yeah, but the institutional side of things will will you know quite enjoy the the regulation because it does bring legitimacy to it. Okay, without Mika, where do you think crypto would be? Well, um, I don't think you'd have the institutional adoption that has followed suit. I think Mika is also one of the most advanced crypto-specific regulations that have come out globally from a tier one jurisdiction or body, the the EU. And so you've seen multiple other jurisdictions following suit after Mika came out. And so I think it has been a very much a leader in the space of how to regulate uh digital assets. The EU always said that you know, this is this is the first iteration. We will come back to it. DeFi is a great example. They've chosen not to regulate DeFi under Mika because they want to fully understand it and come back to it. Okay, and so I think what Mika has caused is more regulators to understand how to regulate the space and then start following suit.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

It can only be for the good, but it seems like it's a lot going on and uh a lot of people to learn and understand.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

It's it is it is a lot, and then you've got kind of every jurisdiction has a different way of imposing the regulations and a different way of thinking about it. Some like the UK are extending their existing financial uh regulations, so FISMA to to crypto, whereas Mika is a brand new act specific to crypto.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Is it hard to stay up to up to date with all, like in terms of like the trends? I guess, like how do you actually do that? How do you stay up to date?

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, look, as a compliance department, we have regulatory horizon scanning obligations. So we we need to stay on top of the regulations that apply to us in the jurisdictions where we operate, as well as industry body uh notifications and updates, so like the FATF, um you know, we need to stay on top of their uh grey country list, etc. So we we you know we speak to local council, we've got tools, we um we sign up to newsletters. I mean, I've signed up to about five or six different regulations every day. Yeah, exactly. And it's it's very helpful. So the the FCA, for example, they've been great actually, like the amount of content that they've produced specifically over the last four months. I mean, it was a nice little Christmas present from the FCA publishing about 700 pages of consultation papers just before Christmas. Um, but that's all really useful information because it's it's transparent to the industry of what the regulator is looking like. And when you have the opportunity to respond, it it opens a dialogue between the private and the public side of things. So, you know, there's a lot of different sources and ways to stay on top of things. Um, it depends on the jurisdiction, but as a compliance point, we're it's our obligation to really keep up.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Exactly right. And to moving away from stable coins more to like head of compliance, I guess, on that role. What would you interested when I'm speaking to guests in terms of like difficult conversations? What would you say any that stand out for you as a head of compliance that you've really had to have a difficult conversation?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, I mean there's always going to be a conflict between compliance and the commercial side of things, but it's how that conflict can be resolved. Um in past uh jobs, that conflict has you know come to a head and it's led to arguments. Whereas what I've found at Velocity is it's it's an incredibly collaborative uh environment. So what it means is I can come in on very conservative side of things, the commercial team can come in a little bit more on the commercial side of things. But we can meet that they don't see you as the blocker together, is it? It's the the answer isn't no. The answer is maybe we can't do it like that, but let's figure out how we can do it. There's always going to be red lines from compliance. Uh, you can't deal with a sanctioned jurisdiction, for example. That's you know pretty, pretty cut and dry. Um, but for the most part, it's it won't work exactly like this. But what if we change it? And and it's about meeting in the middle that that helps those those difficult conversations.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

That's awesome. It's good that I think you need to buy in from everyone, don't you? Really, the the the product people, the engineers, the founders, and if they don't take it seriously, your job's difficult. But if they see you as a a value ad versus a blocker and you all work together, it's only going to go one way.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

That's exactly right. And part of my joining Velocity, it's a risk for any compliance officer to join a new startup because they don't have history behind them. And that you don't know, you know, spoke to the founders, I knew what they wanted, but until I actually worked with them, those are just words. But everything that they've committed to, whether it's you know budget, headcount, um, ambitious licensing strategy, we've activated those plans. And so having a founder, having a management team that has bought into the compliance strategy that I'm designing or I'm I'm I'm helping lead the conversations on, has made my job uh so much easier. And so we effectively we're all singing from the same hymn sheet. It's it's not really a crunchy situation, it's it's a pretty easy dynamic situation.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

That's refreshing because I know I've spoken to loads of people who've done different roles and they're just banging their heads against you know a wall. And if you can't get the buy-in, the role becomes very difficult.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Absolutely, yeah. It's you know, it to an extent it becomes untenable as a compliance officer. You you have your obligations and and your red lines and you know your commitment to the regulating to keeping the firm safe. And if you're not able to do that anymore, then you know effectively you can't perform your job effectively at that uh at that institution.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

And looking sort of five, ten years ahead, who do you think sort of survives? Do you think that's fintechs, banks, crypto companies?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

That's the big question that I think a company in our position is trying to figure out. Yeah, I think I think what you're gonna get is you're already seeing it now. I mean, like there was a lot of noise about stable coins last year. Um, and a lot of companies that are looking to do pretty similar things to what we're looking to do. Some of them are succeeding, some of them have fallen away. There's been some acquisitions in the space. So The industry is still feeling itself out and figuring itself out. The incumbents, and by that I mean the big financial institutions, they're not going anywhere. Um, and they are working in the space. And so it is a question of when do they get fully involved in it? What are they what are they looking to roll out? How are they going to do that? Are they doing that organically or inorganically? There's been a few acquisitions last year that you know could have been massive, like MasterCard looked to buy a buy a company, uh, they chose not to. Um, Coinbase looked to buy the same company, they also chose not to. So there is kind of consolidation uh prospects in the industry that that could happen, but at the same time, there could be you know a revolute of the world that kind of just becomes this high flyer um that that comes out of uh takes over. That takes over, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

And what about if you could change one thing with I guess how crypto firms and regulators interact? Would is there anything you would change? Is there anything you're seeing that maybe is missing?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

I th I think what I've seen with the FCA has been been really good. And I I just hope that more regulators have been that interactive with the firms that are looking to be regulated, because being transparent with us allows us to be transparent with them. And so the FCA um they've been very clear with how they're gonna regulate the space, with what FISMA is gonna look like and how that's gonna apply, very clear on timelines. Um, so all of that is is known to us, and that's incredibly helpful. And then on top of that, they've opened themselves up for pre-application support meetings, which means that you can just have a effectively non-committal meeting with the SCA before you've applied to be authorized by them to talk through issues or present yourself, present your business case. They're not going to advise you, they're not your consultants, but they will listen to you and they will talk to you, which you know is is really, really helpful from a from a regulator. So you know, I think it's it's on the right track, particularly in in the UK, um, to have a good relationship between the public and private side of things.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Sounds like they're uh they're evolving more and they're giving you more information to do your job, really.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Yeah, exactly. And it comes with you know, ideally they've got more case officers, they understand the space more, they they you know, they're regulating it intelligently and and they have the personnel behind them to support that.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

There still seems to be the odd misconception about crypto, I'd say if you could change one thing about that, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah, it's not always wrong. That's that's the problem. I mean, like you know, stablecoins is a good example. People people point to tether and say, I mean, I can't, I I don't know what the exact stats are, but you know, the amount of um usage of tether for illicit purposes, whether that's breach of sanctions or um you know drugs or whatever it might be, uh if you look at a chain analysis or an elliptic report, they they'll they'll show you the use cases of this. But fundamentally, cash is more anonymous than crypto is. So you know holding crypto is pseudonymous. You can always find out who is behind that. Whereas you know, cash is completely a barrier instrument, and that that will always be the you know the money launderer's friend over crypto. So I think it's it's the perception that it's only used for illicit purposes and it doesn't have a real use case. The the comment section in the FT is on any crypto article, is probably my favorite place in the world. If you want to see what the misconceptions are, it's all go there. Like it is genuinely funny, um, and and just entertaining to watch.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Uh, but you're right that people do think of crypto worse than cash, really, don't they? When you look at those those parts, they wouldn't really think of the cash being more dirty, they would look at the crypto.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Exactly. And then and then you know the the other one, which doesn't relate to stable coins but more to Bitcoin and and other cryptocurrencies, is that it's a Ponzi scheme. Like it's it's not. Um, you know, I think it's it's been validated, it's been tested over the last 17 years since 2009, um, you know, especially over the last night seven or so years. Um, but it's I think it's been validated. And you know, the the the common referral is to the Thule craze in the Netherlands. The it's it's just not a bubble like that, it's not a Ponzi scheme. I think it's you know if people are willing to pay a price for something, then it's got a market value, and that's that's what the price is.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

What about obviously you work for big businesses, you've gone into a startup from a compliance point of view. If we're talking to like founders or startups, when do you think they should bring compliance in or consider? Because what I'm seeing from my point of view is people are bringing it in too late, maybe you don't fully understand it, it'd be good to get your view on when you think compliance should be brought into a business.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

I I think right at the outset, and I and I think what Velocity did well is they hired three senior compliance officers within the first 10 people of the business, which meant that I had a team around me that were experienced, that knew what they were doing, and that I could rely on. And so rather than cutting costs and just trying to get junior staff that weren't decision makers, you know, I was able to get MLROs in that were decision makers that I could rely on that helped build out the program. And I think you need an a level of key people like that. And it depends on what your roadmap is, what your licensing strategy is, will determine how many staff you need, because you always need MLROs in local jurisdictions. Um, but I but I'd always say get compliance in as early as possible. You don't want to build something to then find out a year later that you've done it wrong or it's it's incorrect. And then to apply for licenses, you need you need an MLRO. And if you're building from scratch, most MLROs, most uh senior compliance officers will want to have a say in how it's been built because nobody wants to come into a company and find out it's been done wrong and land up in a remediation or a monitorship.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Obviously, we work together you know on those compliances. I what I would say is different with working with yourself and Eric is I guess the buy-in to compliance. I think that's abnormal for a lot of businesses to hire three people from the get-go, and I think that's maybe why you guys are maybe getting ahead and there's not a blocker or resistance. What would you say is good about good about the people that we put forward to you, maybe the people that we placed?

SPEAKER_01 27:36

They they had experience in traditional finance and in crypto. So yeah, Natalia, who's who's in uh in Poland, she's worked at Credit Suite and Payment Art. Um, so you've got a big bank and then you've got a crypto company that does something similar to what we do today. Louis in the UK, you know, he's come from EY and then worked at Ramp Network, so similar kind of experience. And that crossover between the traditional finance and the crypto finance side of things is quite key because while there's a significant amount of overlap between the two industries, there are nuances with crypto that I think are very important that someone that's experienced in the industry will understand, and not least because you know it drives the risk appetite of the compliance officer. You don't want someone that's never been in the space, that's effectively too scared of their own shadow, especially when starting out from scratch, because the compliance officer can end up being a blocker. So you want someone that's level-headed, someone that's calm, someone that can really assess the risks for what they are, not for you know whatever extremities they think there might be.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

I'd agree. And like I think crypto, as you probably know, can be challenging to find good people. Maybe payments is a wider pool. I think what stood out from both of them is not just their like intelligence to crypto and understanding about how they come across and how they deliver. How would you say they've adapted to velocity and like the value add that they've made so far to the business?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

The adaptation was seamless. Um I think they've they both just hit the ground running immediately. The great thing was because I'm I've I've had held management positions in in compliance, but you know, this is the first time I'm I'm holding this type of a position. And so the way that I manage is I I don't want to have to delegate. I don't want to have to stand on top of someone and say, you know, here is your task list for the day or for the week. And that's not I I've never had to do that with with either of them. It was they came in, they found areas that needed to be worked on, they went, I'm gonna focus on this and get this and get this done. And I went, great. And so just people that I can rely on, people that can just pick things up and hit the ground running and and take it um all the way to completion and do it to an incredibly high standard. Um, you know, it's it's made my life incredibly easy. Do you think it's hard to find that type of talent? Do you think there's many out there? It no, um, I mean, given that you've had a hundred percent success rate with that, it's uh you you might think that there is, but you know, I've worked with a lot of compliance people in in my career, and you know, Louie and Natalia are both two of the most capable people I've I've worked with. And I I know that they are both a rarity, um, and I'm incredibly lucky to be supported by them.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

And they're both super bought in and top people, which is great.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, they they've they've bought into the project to what we're trying to do at Velocity. It helps that they've come in so early as well. So they've they've been there right at the ground up to help build things out. Um, and yeah, their contribu contributions have been invaluable. So I'm glad.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Going back to Velocity and the licenses, so we mentioned at the start, what are what's the plans for the rest of the year next year in terms of licensing and where you guys are going to be uh operating?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah, so uh we're obviously UK headquartered. So we're in the process of applying for an EMI and an MLR application with the FCA. We're hoping to drop that as as soon as we can. We're just going through the final stages of the application review process again, making sure that our application is as complete as it can be. Um so we're making the job for the FCA as easy as possible. Um, immediately after that, we will have to start working on our FSMA application. Um, so the FCA has opened up a window between October and February next year where you have to have applied for your FSMA authorization, otherwise, you won't be approved by September, uh October next year. So, yeah, the UK is going to be a massive focus for us. And the lift from the current application to FISMA is going to be a really big one for us. So it's going to take a lot of work for us. Um talks about Mika. You know, we are registered in Poland, so we are uh looking for alternative jurisdictions to applying, and that's that's a massive focus for us because if you aren't Mika authorized, you can't operate in in the EU. So it's pretty black and white and being quite a tricky process for us to navigate. And then we've looked around globally. Um, yeah, as I said, more regulators are coming out with local uh authorization programs to operate in certain markets, you need to be regulated there. And so our licensing strategy has been driven by the commercial demand. If there's a market that we want to be operating in and you need to be authorized there, then that's a jurisdiction that we're we're gonna go for. I mean, to quote Eric, you know, we we want to be the most regulated stablecoin business in the world. Um, and he he's not just saying that. I mean, he's he's really bought into that and and he's really pushing for that because you know, one, the type of clients that we're looking to work with are big corporations that are new to the space and they want that regulated stamp of approval because that's how they're gonna trust that we're doing things properly. So, all well and good that I get on a phone call with their chief compliance officer and tell them what my program is, but unless the regulator has authorized us and validated what I'm saying, they're not gonna believe me. And so the the the licenses have a massive commercial value to the business, and so the roadmap will be determined by you know where does it make commercial sense to be to be going for?

SPEAKER_00 32:41

No, I'd have to agree. I think everyone, not just people I've placed in product engineer, I think you've got an A-team, and I think they're really building something special. So I'm excited to see the journey. Cool, just a couple of closing questions, bit of fun, um, which I always ask the guests. Morning routine, John. Are you perfectly planned or is it chaotic in your house?

SPEAKER_01 32:58

I I used to be chaotic um until my partner Anna moved in. And she's brought a lot more structure to the morning. And despite my grumbling and groaning about like an early bedtime uh and an earlier wake-up, uh, it's it's actually been great. So it's now you know it's pretty choreographed. Wake up early, good cup of coffee, do a bit of exercise, have a long time before actually rushing out the door. When I I mean, yeah, when I first started working, it was wake-up shower out of the door within about 15 minutes. And so my mental health is a lot more settled today than it was back then. You're still running a lot, yeah, yeah, running a lot. Um, got a couple races coming up this year, so um just training for that. That that's my outlet. I mean, it's it's what I what I do to to unwind. It's also where I do my thinking. I mean, I you know, some of the problems that that I have to deal with, sitting at a desk, I'm not gonna find a solution for it. But if I can go out and go for a for a nice long run and just mull it over in my head, I I can often find you know some sort of clarity. The listeners, your runs, they're not too care, they no, I I I like I like I like marathons. Uh I like endurance sports. I mean, uh, you know, long distance rathlon, long distance marathons, uh, ultra marathons. Um, in my last role, I lived in Switzerland for a year, so um was living in the mountains, which yeah, was was phenomenal. Um so if if I could I'd I'd love to go back there. Nice, awesome.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Guilty TV pleasure. Have you got a a program or a series you like?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Um, not really guiltily. Um because my bedtime's so early. I'm thinking it's like nine o'clock lights are out, um, or at least in bed. Um, so we maybe get one episode in. Um Anna likes uh Married at First Sight, which yeah, fair fair enough. Guiltily, I I've I've enjoyed a little bit. Um, but yeah, not not too much TV these days. Um, podcasts like Rest is history, so absolutely not guilty about that. Just absolutely love it. And if you could swap lives with anyone, who would it be? Oh, um you know what? I'm a big cycling fan, and at the moment, well, the last few years, the world of cycling has been absolutely dominated by Tade Pugaca.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Um watched uh a bit of that on Netflix, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

He's he's just this absolute specimen. Um, and yeah, clearly he's worked incredibly hard. Um, he's pretty much changed how cycle races happen single-handedly. I mean, you know, he breaks away a hundred kilometers from the end and rides solo and beats an entire Peloton. So, you know, I think I think being Tade Pogaca would be pretty fun. Yeah, I mean he he must be, you know, he he trains until yeah, he bleeds from his eyes, I'm sure. And so it's probably not the easiest existence. And you know, professional cyclists aren't exactly living living the high life and you know, partying and stuff. But um, yeah, the the dedication that he brings into it, the the structure that he has in his life and the rewards that he's able to reap from that, I think would be yeah, pretty cool to emulate.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Is anyone close to him or is he just miles ahead now?

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Let's see the tour this year. Um, you know, Jonas Vineyard was the the leading contender and between the two of them they'd won the last few tours of tour tours de France each. Um, but the last couple of years Pogachel's just just run away with it. So hopefully Jonas can can come back and challenge him. Yeah um because it like you need you need that just just to be just to make it exciting. And I mean Jonas is so far ahead of everyone else. Um like even him coming second is like a five-minute gap to the to third. So it really is just the two of them, and then in the one day races, you've got Mathieu Thunderpool and maybe Wild Van Art, if he's come back from his injuries, that you know will make the classics in in spring quite exciting.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

So if you give a compliance that's your full time job, yeah, absolutely. Top man. All right, John, great to have you on. Really appreciate you coming on. Cheers, mate. Thanks very much, JT.